Sarcasm 101: The Divine Bible

Wednesday, July 27, 2011

The Divine Bible

A few months back I wrote a post (Why Do You Believe) asking you what the source of your faith was. I was so overwhelmed by your responses. They gave me so much to think about. They posed so many challenges to the simple questions I had asked. It was amazing and I thank you all for participating in the discussion.

One of my big discoveries from that online conversation was that so many of you place the source of your faith outside of any specific holy book. This is a much different experience from my faith/faithless path in life. Back when I was a devoted Christian, it was based almost entirely on my belief that the Bible was the absolute Word of God. So I would like to pose a question to those of you who share that particular belief.

To those of you who believe that the Christian Bible is the true Word of God (or any holy book, really), why do you believe in the divinity of the Bible?

Personally, I have a whole host of reasons that I no longer fall into the "Bible is divine" camp, some of which I listed in my previous post. If you're curious, maybe I'll list some of them out in a future post. But for now, I'm curious about what your reasons are. Why do you believe that the Bible is divine?

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Erika @NAMAmmaSTE · 713 weeks ago

For me it is because the bible has been around for thousands of years and made it through so many different translations and it says exactly the same thing in every translation. That and it's completely unbiased in that it wasn't commissioned (like most historical accounts of leaders). And then to top it off, because it never fails to guide me. No matter what is going on in my life, I can open the bible and the passage I start to read *always* speaks to my heart.

Do you accept the bible as a historic document? I'll have to go read your other posts now! Darn it, your going to take up my whole night ;)

1 reply · active 711 weeks ago

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rubyspikes 67p · 711 weeks ago

I shouldn't have posted such a "deep" question before leaving for vacay. Your comment is probably going to inspire my next post. It's so interesting because I see the bible as the exact opposite of what you describe. I find the bible fascinating and have read a LOT about it. (Well, more than most anyway.) I think that the fact that the bible is thousands of years old is reason to doubt it's divinity. People thousands of years ago still believed in hundreds of gods and invented stories to explain what happened in the world. The bible has been translated many times, but most build off the same translation (King James) instead of returning to the original Greek. And even the Greek has thousands of variations between versions. The writers of the bible weren't commissioned, but the men who assembled the specific writings into what is now known as the bible absolutely had a bias and an intent when choosing what writings would and would not form the official holy book.

As for speaking to your heart, that I will agree with. There is much in the bible that provides direction or solace. But I would disagree with the idea that "any passage" will do that. The bible is A-OK with lots of stuff we find morally objectionable these days. Owning other people is ok? Um... no.

As for accepting it as a historic document, I guess it depends on what you mean by that. It's absolutely an historic document. It clearly shows what the goals and beliefs and lives of early Christians were. But I don't think it's an historically accurate account. In fact, I don't think the writers of the bible (at least New Testament writers) had any intention of writing historically accurate accounts. They said so clear as day in the titles of their works. They called them "gospels" or "good news." It's why (I believe) that the writers were so unconcerned with the fact that their versions were inconsistent. They weren't writing an historical account, they were trying to convince non-believers to join the movement. Clearly, they succeeded.

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Erin · 713 weeks ago

I'm so excited to know peoples answers to this...as someone who hasn't been a part of organised religion in a very long time...the whole topic and idea fascinates me...just because I'm curious, because I'm not on that side of the fence..so I don't understand it - and I always want to understand what I'm not a part of, a different way of life, of thinking...love this idea :)

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rubyspikes 67p · 711 weeks ago

You and me both. I find it all fascinating. And I love that people who disagree so completely on something that is so personal can still find ways to have respectful discussions. It's very tough sometimes, but it gives me hope.

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BeggingAnswers 30p · 713 weeks ago

I've only recently started to consider myself a Christian, so I'm still exploring questions like this myself. I guess when it comes to the Bible, I see it not as a book of rules, but as a book of advice. I suppose I also consider it an anthology, seeing as the different "books" were written by different people (eg: Mark wrote the book of Mark, while Luke wrote the book of Luke, etc.). I think that the books of the old testament were written by various folks too, but again, I'm still learning about this. Anyhow, seeing as the books write about the same things (eg: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John all give an account about the life of Jesus), and all their stories are consistent with each other, that this gives some credence to the idea that at least some of the Bible is a historical account. At the same time, I do think some of it is more like a myth or a poem. For example, no one was really around to write anything down during the time of Adam and Eve, so that story may be just that - a story, not history. Again, I'm still learning about this Christianity thing, so maybe I'm wrong or at least inconsistent, but that's my 2 cents.

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rubyspikes 67p · 711 weeks ago

I don't think you can be wrong in what you believe about the Bible. It's a book that has such a personal meaning to everyone. And I think you explained beautifully how it offers guidance and lessons. I think there are plenty of people who think that they "know" what the Bible says or means, I am not one of them. I'm usually not a fan of those folks since I wonder where they think they get the authority to know that their interpretation is the correct one.

But since I've read a book or two about the "historical bible", which is what they call it when historians study the Bible as a historical document instead of a religious text, I'll offer a couple theories that relate to your comment. 1) Most biblical historians agree that the four gospels were written based on each other. By this I mean that the Gospel of Mark was written first. The John and Matthew were written after that one and the authors most likely had a copy of Mark on hand when they wrote them. And then Luke was written last, probably with John and Matthew on hand. (I may have gotten the first book wrong. I can never remember which one was first. But I'm pretty sure Luke was last.) 2) I'm reading a book now about who wrote the different Gospels. Apparently, there is pretty good evidence that none of the four gospels were written by the four men that they are accredited to. Two of them were written anonymously and were given names. The other two were written by men who may not have actually been the actual apostles. It's pretty interesting, but only from a historical perspective. Not so much from a "find spiritual guidance" perspective.

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edogayla · 713 weeks ago

I have found the History Channel one of the best sources about the Bible. One show was about how the books of the New Testament were selected at the Council of Nicea. Emperor Constantine called the council so politics most likely was involved in deciding which gospels, there were more than 4, would be included.

The Old Testament in which the first 6 books are taken from the Torah are works that I believe were written with inspiration from God. I believe in evolution but that doesn't mean I don't believe the creation story. For me the story of Adam and Eve is telling us God created everything. If you take Genesis literally there had to be a whole lot of inbreeding going on. It is thought that Genesis was written during the Babylonian exile, the Hanging Gardens being the inspiration for the garden of Eden. Some believe the Book of Job is also a myth written to teach the people that one should never lose faith in God. There is historical evidence that many Biblical events did happen.
When one reads the Bible you have to take into account when it was written. Societies were different and the world was still flat but that doesn't mean God didn't inspire the writers to get His message across.

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rubyspikes 67p · 711 weeks ago

I cannot tell you how interesting I found this. I actually have read a lot about the Bible and how it came to be, as well as about the early Christian movement. I truly find it fascinating. The Council of Nicea is truly fascinating to me. How would Christianity look today if they had chosen six gospels instead of four? If they had included a gospel by a female author? If they had only chosen one gospel? There were gospels at the time that said that Jesus was divine, but not human. Others that said that he was human, but not divine. How many millions of lives have been shaped in one way or another because of the choices of the four that were chosen along with the additional books of the New Testament? It truly boggles my mind.

As for the Torah being inspired by God, you didn't say why you believe that. I guess quantifying something like that is more felt than explained. But why those specific books and not other religious texts? Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. What about these books makes you feel that they are divinely inspired while others are not?

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Paulette (MsPDrama) · 713 weeks ago

Ok, so I've read this post and your previous why do you believe post. I'm going to cover both here. (I wasn't a reader/writer of blogs back then)

Why do I believe? Simply because I exist. Not that I was born but that I lived. My Mom and all her sisters were sexually abused by their dad. Somewhere along the line Grandma divorced him. My Mom and Dad fell in love and married. Her 1st his 2nd. Dad's 1st marriage was to HS sweetheart. They had one miscarriage. While serving Air Force this woman sent him a dear John letter. He some how survived that to find my Mom. She told him she couldn't have kids. Told him bout the abuse she suffered. She didn't want to chance it. BUT somewhere along the line that changed. They got pregnant 2 x. Results were 2 miscarriages. In their 30s I was born. Mom was told I wouldn't make it either. I was premature but proved the docs wrong. Here is where my reason for believing comes in. Mom suffered PPD/Psychosis. When I was 5 months old to the day she finally succeeded in her attempts to take her life. Daddy told me this story 2yrs ago with lots of difficulty. I've always known how she died but that was about it. His telling me it only reinforced my belief in God. Mom could've just killed me or both of us. BUT she didn't. With what was left of her sanity she shut every door between the garage and my room where I was safely sleeping. Her last sane thought was unmaking sure survived. I believe that. I believe someone spoke to her to protect me. Daddy became an alcoholic for years. A mean one BUT he never hurt me or my things. He finally got help. Too bad it came in the form of the worlds worst step mom. I survived years of abuse from that woman. Was sexually abused by minister of step mom's church. Lost my faith for awhile. Found it again. As I look back over events of my life so far, I can see where God protected me, helped me, and believed in me. Because I believe in Him, I believe the Holy Bible is His word. As previous poster said, the Bible's Books connect to each other and tells the same stories written by different people. I can see the truth of His word in my life. Often times sitting in church/small group myself or hubby will say to ea other are they talking to me? His word speaks to me. Any given day His word applies to my life.

Hope that made sense. If you want to talk more w/me bout this I'm willing to share my story more in depth. @LittleMsP

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rubyspikes 67p · 711 weeks ago

That is an amazing story. My heart goes out to you. And I know that so many people's personal survival through tragedy reinforces their faith. But it always makes me wonder what the flip side is. I have heard stories of people who should have been in the towers on 9/11, but by some fluke they weren't there, and have heard it said many times that God was protecting them. This just doesn't make any sense to me. Was God, then, not protecting the 2,753 people who died in the towers that day? That just doesn't make any sense to me.

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Paulette (MsPDrama) · 711 weeks ago

I think that's it's a matter of time. When it's your time, it's your time no matter where you are or what's going on. Maybe best explained by

Ecclesiastes 3:1-8

1) To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven:
2) A time to be born, and a time to die, a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
3) A time to kill, and a time to heal: a time to break down and a time to build up;
4) A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5) A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6) A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7) A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8) A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war and a time of peace.

To me it's about having a belief beyond what you can see. For myself, I am a Christian and I believe the Bible is from God and those that wrote it were inspired by him and that he spoke to them. To believe this, it requires true faith in that we may not fully understand. I myself and still learning but basically new to it. As I've never before really cared to read the Bible myself and trusting in what others were telling me. This is wrong. In the Book of Acts, I'd have to look it up for exact Ch and Verse, we are told to listen but confirm, basically. That the interpretation/sermon/lesson presented may be right or it may be wrong. Therefore we should read it for ourselves and see if the speaker is telling the truth.

Hope that made a little sense. Thanks for taking the time to reply. As strange as it may seem I am able to agree to disagree and accept others have beliefs that are not my own. I try to avoid the ugly debates and just focus on my story and how it relates to my belief. I believe that He watches us and has a plan and a purpose for us even we do not know him or are listening for Him to speak to us. As someone told me and I believe is the best way to put it, "The world shouts but God whispers."

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Paulette (MsPDrama) · 711 weeks ago

I forgot to mention this:

I believe God allows bad things to happen as awake up call, to draw believers closer to Him, and bring in new believers/those who've strayed.

How do you explain things like: The Miracle on the Hudson? The brave people that took over UA Flight 93 during 911 even knowing the likely out come? The rescued miners? Baby Jessica?

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Jenn · 713 weeks ago

Hum, I do believe that the Bible is a historic document, in the same vein as the Torah and the Quran. As with all historical works, indeed with everything that is written today, there is a premise behind the writing and a bias in the interpretation of events. That is not a negative. History is written by humans and we put our perspective onto how it is viewed.

I saw the term "religiously confused" and that is what I currently am. Once upon a time I was very much a Christian but now I find that I no longer identify with any organized religion to the point where I don't know if I am agnostic or atheist.

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rubyspikes 67p · 711 weeks ago

That was me. About 10 years ago. I used to believe that the Bible was 100% divine. Then I began to see it as a document written by men. Real, honest-to-goodness, human men. And everything about it changed. Everyone has an agenda, a goal, a bias, a perspective. Each of those men may have had the most honorable of intentions with their writings, but they still had a purpose in their writing, be it to persuade others to follow the teachings of Christ or to encourage others to behave in a way that they believed was more moral and honorable. Those causes are just and are certainly understandable, but I began to question why I should follow the recommendations of random men who lived thousands of years ago as opposed to using my own brain and sense of right and wrong to decide how to live my life. I may not have spirituality, but I have a lot of empathy and it helps to set my personal moral compass. In the end, I end up making a lot of moral decisions based on the "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" rule, but not because someone thousands of years ago tells me it's a good rule, or because I believe in karma, but because I have seen people hurt or sad or in pain and I try not to be the cause of any. I fail often, but that's my goal.

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kimmiec88 13p · 713 weeks ago

Interesting question.

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theresahughes 73p · 713 weeks ago

I want to comment, but I don't believe.
I don't believe because I think the Bible is taken too literally and the real message gets lost too often. I wouldn't call myself an athiest. I do believe there is something intangible that connects us all. I just don't want a anyone to tell me how to interpret it.

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rubyspikes 67p · 711 weeks ago

"I just don't want anyone to tell me how to interpret it." Amen! And I agree with "the taken too literally" piece, too.